tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20661330.post7369701980523033291..comments2023-10-18T15:43:21.360+01:00Comments on Fair Deal Phil: Missing Madeleine: don't blame the parents (or me...)fairdealphilhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07246131944479743426noreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20661330.post-38363194665550924762007-07-30T15:14:00.000+01:002007-07-30T15:14:00.000+01:00What do you think Phil? Oakeshott?http://www.msnbc...What do you think Phil? Oakeshott?<BR/><BR/>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18727725/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20661330.post-29182084285785614192007-07-27T08:29:00.000+01:002007-07-27T08:29:00.000+01:00Oh, Michael, how sad indeed.I suspect Phil made n...Oh, Michael, how sad indeed.<BR/><BR/>I suspect Phil made no direct reply to my posts because he cannot invalidate or dismiss some of the points raised within.<BR/><BR/>As to you, well, as a true blue McCanninite I expect nothing more from you.<BR/><BR/>I have to note that you made no effort to discuss the points raised by myself. You rambled about council estate parents. Accused me of not having a grip or perspective, of being dictatorial and a fascist, and of demanding Phil agree with my point of view. Oh! And I suffer from 'class hate' and am jealous.<BR/><BR/>What interesting points you raise - if you are in a grade school debate program, but even then all of the arguments you make wouldn't fly.<BR/><BR/>Have you nothing better to do than to hurl insults at people who are posing thoughtful and well reasoned questions to others? Or is it only the thoughtful and well reasoned posts which raise your ire? You know, nothing there to refute and nothing intelligent to counter with or contribute so you resort to mud slinging?<BR/><BR/>Funny, that. <BR/><BR/>I've afforded you the courtesy of a reply. Would gladly do so again if you wish to engage in an actual discussion/debate which would involve having valid, well reasoned and intelligent counter arguments. Until such time (which I doubt is likely to ever happen) I will not afford you a second thought or reply.<BR/><BR/>Ta now!<BR/><BR/>KatKathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01296755824736855460noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20661330.post-46776750450502242252007-07-26T18:14:00.000+01:002007-07-26T18:14:00.000+01:00Phil I know that the parents can not breach any of...Phil <BR/>I know that the parents can not breach any of the investigation and talk about the case. I understand that yes for nearly 3 months now they have endured a parents worst nightmare. One that would of never happened if the children were watched. Now maybe it is because we come from a different backround or culture but what exactly is a baby listening service?? When did this become a responsible way to leave your children alone?? Gerry answered 50 yards away is the distance and he could see the apt. Have you looked at the view. What was he looking at the top of the blding. It is blocked by a wall and bushes you cant see a damn thing. How do they explain leaving 3 children at the Chaplin 800 meters away while a neighbor heard them cry for 2 hrs??? It is not just the Mccanns, there were other intelligent people there as well. It is not just the one night they went out. They left them alone every night. <BR/>So NO it obviously was not enough their own "babysitting service". I have told you before I do not want the twins taken from them I can see they are loving parents. I will not discredit them as human or as caring people. I do think that something needs to be done. You work with the police authority, I work in The medical field. I am sure we both have seen far worse cases of abuse than most. I for one know what they did was against the law here in the U.S. and if a child did not go missing that night I feel people would have a different opinion. What if Madeliene wandered off to the ocean and was found hours later alive and well by vacationers. The news would be 2 parents left 3 children under 3 alone while at a hotel bar. The media and people all around the world would be ripping them apart. I dont think Madeleine was abused by her parents whoever took her is a different story. But remember who is supposed to be there to care for her and protect her. No one has any right to take your child but for god sakes don chance it. That is just plain neglectful. They are only kids once, enjoy that take them to play tennis with you and dine with you. You never know how long you will have with them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20661330.post-12995243882178801142007-07-26T14:55:00.000+01:002007-07-26T14:55:00.000+01:00amy,you say:"I have watched my child nearly die an...amy,<BR/><BR/>you say:<BR/><BR/>"I have watched my child nearly die and would never wish that on anyone. As a parent I am shocked that any other parent could leave their child, a precious gift of life that far in a strange place. I just wish that the Mccanns would face the music and tell the truth."<BR/><BR/>amy, like you, we came close to losing a child, through meningitis, but thankfully, and with the help of intensive care in our NHS, she pulled through and ten years on has no ill effects and she's been able to become a successful primary school teacher.<BR/><BR/>...But Madeleine is still missing...<BR/><BR/>You say that you wish the McCanns would face the music and tell the truth...<BR/><BR/>They have been facing the music every minute of the past 83 - or is it 84 - days.<BR/><BR/>A couple of days ago, Gerry McCann said this:<BR/><BR/>"We know that there has been criticism in some quarters of our actions but at the time, we felt our actions were responsible. <BR/><BR/>"We were essentially performing our own baby listening service although we have talked of the guilt we felt at not being there at the moment Madeleine was taken."<BR/><BR/>Isn't that enough?fairdealphilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07246131944479743426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20661330.post-36127129381749326192007-07-26T04:35:00.000+01:002007-07-26T04:35:00.000+01:00In response to some saying we are jealous. Of what...In response to some saying we are jealous. Of what can I ask. We are jealous that we did not enjoy some drinks at a bar while we leave our children alone for 5 nights and have one go missing?? I do not understand you. I dont have any hate towards the Mccanns. I want them to find their daughter and go back to the normal life they led. I dont think the twins should be taken from them either. I hate being critical and no I am not the perfect parent. I have watched my child nearly die and would never wish that on anyone. As a parent I am shocked that any other parent could leave their child, a precious gift of life that far in a strange place. I just wish that the Mccanns would face the music and tell the truth. All these so called educated people were on vacation and left their infants/toddlers alone every night while they were there. Please have another look at the distance. The Tapas bar , the Chaplin children crying alone for 2 hours. Why??? It is wrong no matter what excuse you have for them. I do not think it is right that so much positive attention has been given to them. I look at the pain in Kates eyes and it hurts me. I feel awful for her it kills you as a mother to watch. But I still have to ask why??? Why did you leave them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20661330.post-23503828782667767812007-07-25T06:24:00.000+01:002007-07-25T06:24:00.000+01:00Kat さんは書きました... *hands on hips*A-hem. You did not ...Kat さんは書きました... <BR/>*hands on hips*<BR/><BR/>A-hem. <BR/><BR/>You did not address my post Phil. I'm disappointed.<BR/><BR/>I doubt he read it luv, noone else did. You guys really like the sound of your own voices don't you? What makes you think anyone is bothered with what you think.<BR/><BR/>I also really like the way you DEMAND that Phil agrees with your view. Shades of fascism.<BR/><BR/>The chances of the child being abducted are less than the house being struck by a bolt of lightening. Get a bit of perspective. Indeed just a grip and find an important issue, rather than dictating to parents how to bring up their children. A walk round any council estate will show you far more neglect. Some children would be better off if their parents cleared off permanently. But no noise on this issue from anyone here. Seems to be a bit of class hate here. The McCanns are middle class, prosperous and intelligent, and others jealously is all too clear to see.<BR/><BR/>How sad for you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20661330.post-35857048607651407552007-07-25T05:38:00.000+01:002007-07-25T05:38:00.000+01:00*hands on hips*A-hem. You did not address my post...*hands on hips*<BR/><BR/>A-hem. <BR/><BR/>You did not address my post Phil. I'm disappointed.<BR/><BR/>I am not out for the blood of the McCanns. I am out for the blood of ALL of the adults in their party who left their children in harms way every night of their vacation.<BR/><BR/>Okay, not literally blood, but for accountability. <BR/><BR/>They all contributed, by their mutual agreement that it was okay to leave very small children alone in unlocked apartments, to the circumstances which resulted in that poor, innocent, wide eyed little girl falling prey to - what? - God only knows. They are culpable.<BR/><BR/>I think it is of utmost importance, especially in consideration of the fund to 'find' Madeleine, that the public be made well aware of the known facts of this case.<BR/><BR/>Do I believe that people should turn the other way and run from helping people who need it? Absolutely not. I do believe that people asking for help, nay, soliciting financial help, should be completely transparent with how they manage the generosity of others. And to use that generosity for the stated purpose - as in actually trying to find Madeleine. <BR/><BR/>I am not saying that raising awareness of Madeleine is without merit. I am saying that they McCanns, themselves, have stated - see their first interview - to whit, that they would not hire private investigators (at that time the fund was over three hundred thousand pounds). They have said they did not lift a finger, themselves, to physically look for Madeleine, not in those first hours and days and not since. <BR/><BR/>It is imperative that this couple not be held up as the poster children for child advocacy groups - they put their own children at risk. <BR/><BR/>It is important that they be at least investigated for two reasons - so as not to set an improper example as to what responsible parenting involves and to ensure that the children who remain with them will never be subjected to being put in such a precarious position again. It is important that all of the adults in that group be investigated for the same reasons.<BR/><BR/>It is important that those who are considering contributing to a fund which has grown to a massive sum understand that the monies the intend on giving will likely not go to the funds first stated purpose - to FIND Madeleine. <BR/><BR/>Yes. We who are critical of the parents McCann et al are fierce in our beliefs. Some of us are a little over the top, some rabid with anger, some churlish and extreme. Much in the same way the supporters of the McCanns are. Only it has been my experience that no matter how reasoned my tone of inquiry, the McCanninites (as I like to call them) are ever quick to badger, bully and insult. I have yet to have a reasoned and restrained debate with a single one of them.<BR/><BR/>Please have a look at the links I provided in my previous post. Please have a think on the kind of world we live in. Think about how very young all those children were and how every adult entrusted to look out for them quite literally abandoned them for hours every night of their holiday in favour of a leisurely dinner and cocktails. Think about what the woman above the McCann apartment said about listening to the wails of a small child for hours while the parents were blocks and blocks away for dinner - and not within checking/listening distance.<BR/><BR/>Imagine how terrifying that would be for any child to experience, awaking in an unfamiliar place without a parent nearby - without a parent answering your calls - with no one to comfort you while you cried. Now, if you dare to, imagine how compounded that fear might have been for Madeleine if she was abducted. <BR/><BR/>And then, please, let us all know what you think.Kathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01296755824736855460noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20661330.post-59985273421453414922007-07-25T03:37:00.000+01:002007-07-25T03:37:00.000+01:00Phil Let me start off by telling you that I do fee...Phil <BR/>Let me start off by telling you that I do feel for the Mccanns. Their precious daughter is missing. I dont feel removing the twins from their family would do anything good. Here in the U.S. where Mr. Mccann currently is you would have DSS up your #ss. But they are so inundated with other forms of neglect who knows what would happen. My biggest problem with this story is that it has been accepted by the media and celebrities to positiveley condone their behavior. Is it against the law or not to leave your children alone? I think if they were not so defensive in the begining people would not be so critical of them. I have heard all these stories of their children being left night after night from even further distances. That is odd. Please have a look at the view of the apt. to the tapas, it was alot farther that 50 yards. The apt. was blocked from sight. You could not see it from were they were sitting. How long do you think it took to walk from their table to the apt.? It had to have taken 10 mins atleast. 5 there 5 back sit for 20 then go back and check again??? It was neglect no matter who you are what you do for a living or how "close" your family is. What if Madeleine did not go missing and the parents were caught leaving their children night after night. I think then views would be different.What if a terrible tragedy did not happen. Would you critizize the parents then. This is pulling at heartstrings for all people following the case.<BR/>I know I sound critical, they are being punished enough. I am sick of being called a looney because I beleive leaving children alone is wrong.It just really bothers me to see people defend their actions not only one night but the other nights. Plain and simple come clean face the FACT tell people yes we were wrong dont ever leave your children ALONE. Think about that Phil alone. I have young children do you remember when yours were that little?? Alone no one to go to if you wake up crying,scared,thirsty have to pee or just to cuddle. Alone. Not fair for Madeleine. God bless this poor little girl wherever she is.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20661330.post-3993590043062724712007-07-25T02:07:00.000+01:002007-07-25T02:07:00.000+01:00Oh yes Phil, far far worse. Indeed, you haven't ha...Oh yes Phil, far far worse. Indeed, you haven't had a taste of the obscenities they dish out. Ask the Mirror.<BR/><BR/>Well, at least the Express seems to be up to the job.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20661330.post-76053367976550485962007-07-25T01:08:00.000+01:002007-07-25T01:08:00.000+01:00pete:jerks and incompetent morons...?are these the...pete:<BR/><BR/>jerks and incompetent morons...?<BR/><BR/>are these the obscenities hm complains of...?fairdealphilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07246131944479743426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20661330.post-59601615022981109422007-07-25T01:07:00.000+01:002007-07-25T01:07:00.000+01:00michael:i'll leave you are hm (sir!!!) to slug out...michael:<BR/><BR/>i'll leave you are hm (sir!!!) to slug out eugenics. seems to be rather off-post...fairdealphilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07246131944479743426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20661330.post-65632361943859539832007-07-25T01:06:00.000+01:002007-07-25T01:06:00.000+01:00i did find the final paragraph of hm's next contri...i did find the final paragraph of hm's next contribution revealing when he complained about the McCann supporters spouting "their obscenities"...<BR/><BR/>are they worse obscenities than those which have appeared on my blog from the anti-McCann campaign...?fairdealphilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07246131944479743426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20661330.post-59707648169380735872007-07-25T01:02:00.000+01:002007-07-25T01:02:00.000+01:00sir??hm again:sorry, like michael, i gave up wadin...sir??hm again:<BR/><BR/>sorry, like michael, i gave up wading through your marathon comment at a rather early stage...fairdealphilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07246131944479743426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20661330.post-9392356028264478312007-07-25T00:59:00.000+01:002007-07-25T00:59:00.000+01:00heather asks why I am trying to defend the McCanns...heather asks why I am trying to defend the McCanns...<BR/><BR/>er, because their daughter has been abducted heather. As a father, my heart goes out to them.fairdealphilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07246131944479743426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20661330.post-52351881128149508622007-07-25T00:57:00.000+01:002007-07-25T00:57:00.000+01:00doris:Didn't mean to suggest it was OK to neglect ...doris:<BR/><BR/>Didn't mean to suggest it was OK to neglect children.<BR/><BR/>If the McCanns made a mistake, they've been dragged to hell and back for it - it's not helpful to drag them there again.<BR/><BR/>I'm sure you deserve a medal for raising your children.fairdealphilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07246131944479743426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20661330.post-48835028119353935662007-07-25T00:52:00.000+01:002007-07-25T00:52:00.000+01:00sir?hmHow do you know there's no evidence that Mad...sir?hm<BR/><BR/>How do you know there's no evidence that Madeleine was abducted?<BR/><BR/>Are you a Portuguese police officer?fairdealphilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07246131944479743426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20661330.post-12378646864784022232007-07-25T00:51:00.000+01:002007-07-25T00:51:00.000+01:00i'll try to answer some of the comments from those...i'll try to answer some of the comments from those who at least have an identity:<BR/><BR/>johnno asked if I'd thought about offering Alistair Campbell a job.<BR/><BR/>If you mean Alastair Campbell, johnno: no, and i won't holdf my breath for him to offer me one...fairdealphilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07246131944479743426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20661330.post-88835045106768171692007-07-24T20:58:00.000+01:002007-07-24T20:58:00.000+01:00"" Over 60 messages since Friday. ... ""Phil, yo..."" Over 60 messages since Friday. ... ""<BR/><BR/>Phil, you love it. All bloggers love a reaction. And be fair, not much of it has been hitting you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20661330.post-42793314650134768542007-07-24T19:52:00.000+01:002007-07-24T19:52:00.000+01:00Well said Sir HM.Well said Sir HM.Dorishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14073379610501763461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20661330.post-70390083619785733262007-07-24T18:49:00.000+01:002007-07-24T18:49:00.000+01:00Here's a good Portuguese blog. Go visithttp://www....Here's a good Portuguese blog. Go visit<BR/><BR/>http://www.gazetadigital.blogspot.com/<BR/><BR/>and follow some of the links that may catch your eye<BR/><BR/>And here<BR/><BR/>http://tinyurl.com/yw2z8t<BR/><BR/>Take a look through the pictures and wonder where the "like eating in the garden" came from.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20661330.post-43223105170075063502007-07-24T17:39:00.000+01:002007-07-24T17:39:00.000+01:00And Mr Oakeshott, I ONLY EVER post anywhere under ...And Mr Oakeshott, I ONLY EVER post anywhere under the names Sir HM or SirHenry Morgan. I never post as Anonymous.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20661330.post-85900274782768819442007-07-24T17:28:00.000+01:002007-07-24T17:28:00.000+01:00I'm sorry Phil, but the 'few yards away' assertion...I'm sorry Phil, but the 'few yards away' assertion is horribly incorrect. Please see the attached links.<BR/><BR/>http://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.com/2007/05/some-pictures-from-praia-da-luz-crime.html<BR/><BR/>See the two tiny people waaay down the corridor? That is the corridor the McCanns had to navigate to reach their aparment, which was located off the resort's main gated and secured grounds. And that corrioder is beyond the swimming pool which separates it from the tapas bar.<BR/><BR/>http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42928000/jpg/_42928321_portugal_sat_resort416.jpg<BR/><BR/>The ariel view speak volumes. The former link only serves to add to the fact the distance was *significant* and much more than a few yards away.<BR/><BR/>Add to that the report from a woman who was in the apartment above the McCann's that the parents and their group dined well off the resort, at a restaurant located well below the church, and that she was forced to listen to a child wail and cry throughout the night from 10:30 until the parents returned at 11:45.<BR/><BR/>More than just slightly irresponsible, methinks.Kathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01296755824736855460noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20661330.post-72774084669072320902007-07-24T16:52:00.000+01:002007-07-24T16:52:00.000+01:00Check this out phil:http://bp1.blogger.com/_mXbRBc...Check this out phil:<BR/><BR/>http://bp1.blogger.com/_mXbRBcSh0gs/RlowOZfs4eI/AAAAAAAAAZw/NnmhuElEmVI/s1600-h/Aerial_Photo_Ocean_Club_Eng.gifAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20661330.post-45249134566175120432007-07-24T16:41:00.000+01:002007-07-24T16:41:00.000+01:00Michael OakeshottEugenics? Fine, bring it on.I'll ...Michael Oakeshott<BR/><BR/>Eugenics? Fine, bring it on.<BR/><BR/>I'll be ok, I'm 99th percentile myself. Where are you on that scale?<BR/><BR/>Do you even know what it means?<BR/><BR/>Well, it depends on how you measure the standard deviation for IQ, but being in the 99th percentile means, basically, that only one out of every thirty (one way of measuring the deviation) thousand, to one out of every hundred (the other way of measuring the deviation) thousand people has an IQ as high as or higher than mine. Somewhere between 600 and 2000 people in this entire country are as bright as I am. <BR/><BR/>So ok, bring on your eugenics.<BR/><BR/>Oh, I see - you might prefer to decide your eugenics on physical criteria? Ok, still bring it on: I enlisted at 15 and served for 8 years, followed by another 13 years doing ... er ... private contracts. I don't think I'd have had any problems with eugenics based on physical characteristics then. Do you?<BR/><BR/>Have since gotten educated to postgrad level.<BR/><BR/>Prefer blue eyes then? Yup, got that too. Had blonde hair as a kid too, but run to grey now. Happens as people get older and wiser.<BR/><BR/>So bring on your Eugenics Mr Oakeshott. Fine by me.<BR/><BR/>Now unless you've got any real argument to put out, push off.<BR/><BR/>I wouldn't have mentioned any of this stuff if you hadn't been so prattish.<BR/><BR/>On your profile you have a blog registered telling the world how "Right Wing" you are. Not a single word written on that blog. Right Wing? You don't know the meaning of it. I'M Right Wing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20661330.post-9183997497606432582007-07-24T15:20:00.000+01:002007-07-24T15:20:00.000+01:00it was a great post sir hm - and yes predictably h...it was a great post sir hm - and yes predictably here come the pro McCanns with their "protect" at all costs.<BR/>The points you made were spot on - even ole Fair Deal Phil will be able to understand it...But the McCann defenders?<BR/>Listen you bunch of jerks...do you actually care about MADELEINE at all? <BR/>Because if you do - why defend the incompetent morons who left her alone night after night? What about HER rights to expect that her own parents would actually bother to look out for her? What about Madeleine?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08609174922460542277noreply@blogger.com